Login Register Donate

Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
External graphics (eGPU) for laptops.
#1
I'm curious about the possibility of using an External Graphics Processor Units (eGPU) and wanted to have a discussion on here with other HP Envy 17 3D laptop users, or anyone else who is considering this as an alternative to still use their laptops for gaming and other CPU & GPU intensive programs.   I am hoping some of you have correct information about compatibility and limitations I may come across if attempting to set this up with my laptop, or to share your stories of trying it on your brand of laptops as well. I am hoping this thread will help us with the limitations we have been imposed by the laptop manufactures in the past and all the hard work everyone on this site has helped us to have updated drivers when we received no support from the laptop manufactures. 

Here is a few links to some videos on YouTube of a guy trying to install the eGPU on a few different brand of laptops. These are just for reference if someone has not seen this attemtped before. He fails a few times, but gets it working in video Part 3 of 3. 


External graphics (eGPU) on HP Elitebook 8770w (Part 1 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Qw_37t_zw


External graphics (eGPU) on Acer Aspire One ZG5 (Part 2 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvUUeg79...tml5=False

Nvidia GeForce GTX 580 eGPU working in a HP Elitebook 8770w (Part 3 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpAEmNjx...tml5=False
Reply
#2
(04-12-2016, 07:29 AM)jordanlc31 Wrote: I'm curious about the possibility of using an External Graphics Processor Units (eGPU) and wanted to have a discussion on here with other HP Envy 17 3D laptop users, or anyone else who is considering this as an alternative to still use their laptops for gaming and other CPU & GPU intensive programs.   I am hoping some of you have correct information about compatibility and limitations I may come across if attempting to set this up with my laptop, or to share your stories of trying it on your brand of laptops as well. I am hoping this thread will help us with the limitations we have been imposed by the laptop manufactures in the past and all the hard work everyone on this site has helped us to have updated drivers when we received no support from the laptop manufactures. 

Here is a few links to some videos on YouTube of a guy trying to install the eGPU on a few different brand of laptops. These are just for reference if someone has not seen this attemtped before. He fails a few times, but gets it working in video Part 3 of 3. 


External graphics (eGPU) on HP Elitebook 8770w (Part 1 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Qw_37t_zw


External graphics (eGPU) on Acer Aspire One ZG5 (Part 2 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvUUeg79...tml5=False

Nvidia GeForce GTX 580 eGPU working in a HP Elitebook 8770w (Part 3 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpAEmNjx...tml5=False

There is a huge collection of information on techinferno forums if you are interested. Link - eGPU
Confusing What Is Real
Reply
#3
(04-12-2016, 07:29 AM)jordanlc31 Wrote: I'm curious about the possibility of using an External Graphics Processor Units (eGPU) and wanted to have a discussion on here with other HP Envy 17 3D laptop users, or anyone else who is considering this as an alternative to still use their laptops for gaming and other CPU & GPU intensive programs.   I am hoping some of you have correct information about compatibility and limitations I may come across if attempting to set this up with my laptop, or to share your stories of trying it on your brand of laptops as well. I am hoping this thread will help us with the limitations we have been imposed by the laptop manufactures in the past and all the hard work everyone on this site has helped us to have updated drivers when we received no support from the laptop manufactures. 

Here is a few links to some videos on YouTube of a guy trying to install the eGPU on a few different brand of laptops. These are just for reference if someone has not seen this attemtped before. He fails a few times, but gets it working in video Part 3 of 3. 


External graphics (eGPU) on HP Elitebook 8770w (Part 1 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Qw_37t_zw


External graphics (eGPU) on Acer Aspire One ZG5 (Part 2 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvUUeg79...tml5=False

Nvidia GeForce GTX 580 eGPU working in a HP Elitebook 8770w (Part 3 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpAEmNjx...tml5=False

Have thought about this myself at one point.

The software found on TechInferno which allows your eGPU to show up on your system seems quite interesting. I only read about it but at this point this laptop is fairly old.

Still love the Envy 17 2xxx 3D because of the display. 120Hz is very hard to replace. Once you go 120Hz you do not go back ;3.

How were you thinking of sliding the mPCIe cable onto the outside of the laptop? At one point I was thinking of removing the Bluray Drive since it serves no use for me. Maybe the SD port could be retrofitted.
[Image: btn_donate_SM.gif] Private support
Reply
#4
I been thinking about this for awhile as well. Would like to get a GDC Beast and GTX 750 but funds have been tight lately. I assume the pci-e wifi slot is limited to 1x?

For the cable I was just going to cut a notch out of the bottom cover and put everything right behind the laptop on my desk.
Reply
#5
(04-13-2016, 08:06 AM)Plastixx Wrote: I been thinking about this for awhile as well. Would like to get a GDC Beast and GTX 750 but funds have been tight lately. I assume the pci-e wifi slot is limited to 1x?

For the cable I was just going to cut a notch out of the bottom cover and put everything right behind the laptop on my desk.

That looks like a good eGPU adapter. Am not sure about the pci-e speed tbh. I read so much about it quite some time ago on techinferno but remember none of it Big Grin.

Surely it cannot just be x1. Nvidia is a good choice because it allows you to use the Optimus (dynamic switching) solution from Nvidia which in turn allows for some form of bandwidth compression over the pci lane resulting in better FPS. So defo Nvidia > AMD for eGPUs.

Am wondering if there is a cleaner way than cutting a slot into the bottom.
[Image: btn_donate_SM.gif] Private support
Reply
#6
(04-13-2016, 01:13 PM)FunkyMike Wrote: That looks like a good eGPU adapter. Am not sure about the pci-e speed tbh. I read so much about it quite some time ago on techinferno but remember none of it Big Grin.

Surely it cannot just be x1. Nvidia is a good choice because it allows you to use the Optimus (dynamic switching) solution from Nvidia which in turn allows for some form of bandwidth compression over the pci lane resulting in better FPS. So defo Nvidia > AMD for eGPUs.

Am wondering if there is a cleaner way than cutting a slot into the bottom.

Clean? Ha, I gave up on clean when I hacked up my case for better cooling a few weeks ago. I had to tear it all down to do a repaste and clean out dust because temps were reaching 90C. I figured why not just let it breath a bit easier as well.

45W CPU + overclocked GPU @ 700/1170 and GPU temp never rises above 73C now; CPU maxes out around 68C.

Just checked the PCI-E specs in HWiFO64. The GPU PCI-E bus is v2.0 16x but the other three (WiFI, USB 3.0, LAN) are only v2.0 1x. The PCI-E bus for the WiFi slot reports a max bandwidth of 5Gb/s. Oddly though the 16x GPU bus also reports 5Gb/s max bandwidth.

I think even with the 1x slot it should still be possible to get better performance than the 6850 provides. If I could get a steady 40-50FPS @ 1080p in GTAV I would be happy. Currently only getting 25-30FPS even with the overclock.


[Image: 2yphkqt.jpg]
Reply
#7
Wow noice! How did you hack through the backside? : O

Ye those temps are impressive. My one is currently a bit too hot and I do not even game much on it.

"The PCI-E bus for the WiFi slot reports a max bandwidth of 5Gb/s. Oddly though the 16x GPU bus also reports 5Gb/s max bandwidth."

5GB/s is the idle speed on the 16x lane I think. The dGPU shoots up to around 57.6 GB/s during use.

I wish I knew more about this.

If you are already hacking up things then you might want to consider placing a mPCI-E cable cable which converts into a thunderbolt/HDMI type connector that you can place on your machine. This would obviously only act like a connector. A few eGPU projects use this I think.
[Image: btn_donate_SM.gif] Private support
Reply
#8
(04-13-2016, 02:44 PM)FunkyMike Wrote: Wow noice! How did you hack through the backside? : O

A dremel tool and cut-off disk. It made a hell of a mess. Took me forever to clean all the metallic dust out of the case with a fine brush (no compressed air source available). Last thing you want is little pieces of metal falling on the motherboard.

The cutout in the back for the GPU heat pipe probably made the biggest difference.

(04-13-2016, 02:44 PM)FunkyMike Wrote: "The PCI-E bus for the WiFi slot reports a max bandwidth of 5Gb/s. Oddly though the 16x GPU bus also reports 5Gb/s max bandwidth."

5GB/s is the idle speed on the 16x lane I think. The dGPU shoots up to around 57.6 GB/s during use.

After spending the last hour or so trying to learn about PCI-E and being thoroughly confused by what HWiNFO64 was showing, I finally find out that HWiNFO64 has it wrong! It's supposed to be GT/s, not Gb/s...

http://www.hwinfo.com/forum/Thread-PCIe-...6-2-5-Gb-s

So the PCI-E connection for the GPU is capable of 16 x 5GT/s (500MB/s) = 8GB/s. This means the x1 slot is 500MB/s. I really don't think this will be too much of a problem for a modest GFX card.

Keep in mind this is NOT the same thing as the GPU's memory bandwidth. The 57.6GB/s is the bandwidth between the VRAM and GPU.

(04-13-2016, 02:44 PM)FunkyMike Wrote: If you are already hacking up things then you might want to consider placing a mPCI-E cable cable which converts into a thunderbolt/HDMI type connector that you can place on your machine. This would obviously only act like a connector. A few eGPU projects use this I think.

The cable for the EXP GDC Beast is kind of like that, but the cable is soldered on the mPCI-E adapter, the other end is a HDMI plug.

The only thing holding me back from trying any of this right now is money. My car needs quite a bit of work done so I won't have much spending money for awhile.
Reply
#9
(04-14-2016, 02:56 PM)Plastixx Wrote:
(04-13-2016, 02:44 PM)FunkyMike Wrote: Wow noice! How did you hack through the backside? : O

A dremel tool and cut-off disk. It made a hell of a mess. Took me forever to clean all the metallic dust out of the case with a fine brush (no compressed air source available). Last thing you want is little pieces of metal falling on the motherboard.

The cutout in the back for the GPU heat pipe probably made the biggest difference.

(04-13-2016, 02:44 PM)FunkyMike Wrote: "The PCI-E bus for the WiFi slot reports a max bandwidth of 5Gb/s. Oddly though the 16x GPU bus also reports 5Gb/s max bandwidth."

5GB/s is the idle speed on the 16x lane I think. The dGPU shoots up to around 57.6 GB/s during use.

After spending the last hour or so trying to learn about PCI-E and being thoroughly confused by what HWiNFO64 was showing, I finally find out that HWiNFO64 has it wrong! It's supposed to be GT/s, not Gb/s...

http://www.hwinfo.com/forum/Thread-PCIe-...6-2-5-Gb-s

So the PCI-E connection for the GPU is capable of 16 x 5GT/s (500MB/s) = 8GB/s. This means the x1 slot is 500MB/s. I really don't think this will be too much of a problem for a modest GFX card.

Keep in mind this is NOT the same thing as the GPU's memory bandwidth. The 57.6GB/s is the bandwidth between the VRAM and GPU.

(04-13-2016, 02:44 PM)FunkyMike Wrote: If you are already hacking up things then you might want to consider placing a mPCI-E cable cable which converts into a thunderbolt/HDMI type connector that you can place on your machine. This would obviously only act like a connector. A few eGPU projects use this I think.

The cable for the EXP GDC Beast is kind of like that, but the cable is soldered on the mPCI-E adapter, the other end is a HDMI plug.

The only thing holding me back from trying any of this right now is money. My car needs quite a bit of work done so I won't have much spending money for awhile.

Thank you! That clears up my bandwidth confusion.

Ye I can just about imagine how much effort you put into the cleaning. I will have to repaste sometime soon. This thing is heating up too much as of late.

My car also needs fixing. No spare change to mess with this putter and a eGPU.

This laptop caught my eye early this year:

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/laptop/918...ng-laptop/

It has a few drawbacks but the next version will hopefully amend those issues.
The USB 3.0c port is not thunderbolt capable which it should be seeing as how we are talking about eGPUs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REoTXELA7vI
[Image: btn_donate_SM.gif] Private support
Reply
#10
That looks like a killer laptop, but it also has an insane price tag. Considering how fast time seems to go by and make things obsolete, I don't think I would ever pay that much for a laptop. I don't think I would even drop 1600USD again like I did on this one.

The new ENVY 17t-n100 looks OK for a 1,000USD laptop (The CTO I just looked at is 860USD right now). No 4k or USB 3.0c though.
Reply
#11
Just placed orders today for an EVGA GTX 1050 Ti SC GAMING and EXP GDC BEAST v8.0. Got good deals on the card and adapter; only paid 165USD for everything.

My hope is that I can get it to work with the internal display. If not, I 'm sure I can resell everything without taking too much loss, if any at all. No interest in using an external monitor.
Reply
#12
Finally got my eGPU setup working. Unfortunately the 1050 Ti would not work due to current drivers requiring PCIe Hot-Plug to be enabled on 10-series cards. I ended up buying a used GTX 960.

The improvement isn't as much as I hoped for. The PCIe x1 Gen2 link is just too much of a bottleneck. I'm only getting a gain of around 10FPS (but with slightly higher game settings), both under Win 7 and Win 10.

The only way I can see this being worth anyone else trying is if they already have a desktop card and don't mind spending $60 for a GDC BEAST and Dell DA-2 power supply. You also need to purchase the eGPU setup software for $25 (It's called Setup 1.31). I've spent about $220 on this, not including what I paid for the 1050 Ti that I now need to sell for a loss.

This was a good learning experience anyway. I think when I finally replace this laptop I'm going to get one with Thunderbolt and without a dGPU.
Reply
#13
Wow Plastixx. Congratulations! Am currently afk but do post pictures and your experience with the inferno eGPU Setup tool!

Would love to see this setup even if it didnt have the amazing performance benefit in the end.

Did you try to use the Nvidia compression mode thingy so that you can decrease bandwidth over the PCIe?
[Image: btn_donate_SM.gif] Private support
Reply
#14
From what I understand the PCIe compression happens automatically with an x1 link and internal display (Optimus enabled).

I think a lot of bandwidth is being eaten up by using the internal display though. There might be some other funny business going on too that has to do with a kind of software G-Sync that's being enabled because of the eDP connected LG panel. I tested the setup using my TV and got much better performance, but it wasn't a fair comparison to the internal display since the TV is really old and only 1280x768. I purchased an external 1080p monitor that should be here in a couple of days. Not what I wanted to do, but I'm in too deep at this point.

If the performance with the external display is good enough, I plan to modify it to sit directly in front of the laptop display. It's an ultra-thin 22" monitor that's only 12mm thick. The design of the back should allow me to flip it 180 degrees and "hang" it from the top of the laptop display with some slight modifications. I'll post pics later.

Oh, and about Setup. Don't want to get into the subject too much, but basically there was some tension between the creator (Nando) and the TI forum owners that lead to him getting banned. He started his own forum decidated to eGPU's if you want to check it out at egpu.io. There's a post there that explains the whole TI mess.
Reply
#15
https://egpu.io/forums/pc-setup/i-got-gt...70-sort-of

Very interesting post Plastixx. Very insightful. I did not know about the TI issue and it is a great shame on what has happened. I wanted to contact Nando at some point to see if we can use the DIY tool to turn off our iGPUs in our laptops so if it ever comes to that I will use the egpu.io forums.

Is there no way to turn off GSync? If no direct registry setting exists maybe there is a way to spoof GSync from activating via masking the EDID of the display (theorizing as I have next to 0 knowledge on G Sync).

It is a shame that HP or anyone else for that matter has not released a laptop that is alike the Envy original series that offers similar power for its category with a similar design.

At some point I was wondering if it might be possible just to replace the mobo inside the Envy 17 to something much newer. Naturally design of the mobo / ports would be an issue but some kind of frankenmod could work if the BIOS and ports play along. Since newer mobos are smaller than there might be some room and forgiveness if converters and extra cords have to be put in for the plugs and connectors.

Cannot wait for further progress! It is a very interesting thread that you have there!

Congratulations again. You put in a lot of effort.

Edit: Glad to hear on your external monitor experience! Looking forward to more info.
[Image: btn_donate_SM.gif] Private support
Reply
#16
I played around with NVIDIA inspector and the G-Sync settings but they had no effect. I'm not even sure that's the problem or if has something to do with Optimus. Not really a concern for me with the external display. Everything is running great now. The IPS 5ms panel has some ghosting, but it's a fair trade for the performance increase.

Did you ever install the BIOS modded by Donovan? If you go under the video settings and turn off "special features" it completely disables the dGPU. You can use Setup to disable it too, but I haven't tried.
Reply
#17
In the end I never did install Donovans F1C drivers since I already was on F1D. At this point I pretty much don't use the laptop for much besides the occasional movie, work and surf. If anything then maybe disabling Intel might help on some devices so that only the dGPU gets used.

It is true that the 120Hz display is way too sweet. Maybe what could be done is a new laptop and ordering the internal 120Hz display separately from one of the LG outlet channels. I believe the glass isn't glued to the screen but I am not 100% certain on this. Certainly something to consider for a new laptop.

Shame that the new Omen 17 seems too .. fat. It has an Nvidia 1070 but is made out of plastic and the screen doesn't even use that type of glass.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Omen-17-...824.0.html

Looking at the mobo picture I thought that maybe the carcass of an Envy 17, 2xxx or 3xxx can be used and the port positions just remade or something a long those lines.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ufgAAOSwst...-l1600.jpg

Maybe it might even be easier to just construct a new case based on casts from the original design.
Might as well just start a gaming laptop manufacturing business ; )
[Image: btn_donate_SM.gif] Private support
Reply
#18
(01-06-2017, 06:28 PM)FunkyMike Wrote: In the end I never did install Donovans F1C drivers since I already was on F1D. At this point I pretty much don't use the laptop for much besides the occasional movie, work and surf. If anything then maybe disabling Intel might help on some devices so that only the dGPU gets used.

You should just install it if you have a copy of it. His blog is no longer and I must have deleted it after I flashed it. It's worth it just to be able to change to AHCI and have the advanced thermal controls (fan speed/throttling).

I'm done modding this thing. I'd drop the money on a new laptop before attempting to shoehorn a new mobo in. Tongue

I posted my external monitor setup over at egpu.io if you want to take a look...

https://egpu.io/forums/pc-setup/i-got-gt...#post-1451
Reply
#19
Roger! Oh wow indeed it seems like his blog is either down or you need an invite for it.

I must still have the BIOS somewhere backed up on a dropbox account somewhere. Will fish it out once I can get back to my PXAI device.

Nice pics btw! You have done a very clean job. I assume you have routed all eGPU ports through the back?

120Hz screens are quite cheap now from what I found on alibaba and ebay. Will have to look into what needs to be done for that kind of screen to be compatible with a new laptop. I assume it will be the iDP ports and maybe some IR stuff .. not certain yet.
[Image: btn_donate_SM.gif] Private support
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)